Knox began podcasting in 2011 as a way to talk more about popular culture, and to his extreme surprise, he’s still doing via The Popcast with Knox and Jamie and The Bible Binge.
As a resident of the South, Knox’s heritage is to enjoy football and barbecue, and he does so with great passion. He also enjoys zombie movies, police procedurals, and a good Netflix binge.
Knox lives with his wife and three kids in Birmingham, Alabama, where he works as the swashbuckling cofounder of The Popcast Media Group.
MENTIONS
Knox McCoy Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/knoxmccoy/
Knox McCoy Twitter – https://twitter.com/knoxmccoy
Knox McCoy, All Things Reconsidered – https://www.thomasnelson.com/p/allthingsreconsidered/
Knox McCoy, Sectional Healing – https://sectionalhealing.substack.com/
The Popcast – http://knoxandjamie.com/
The Bible Binge – http://knoxandjamie.com/thebiblebinge/
Ashley McCoy Instagram – https://www.instagram.com/ashleylmccoy/
Ashley McCoy, The Bluest Willow – https://www.thebluestwillow.com/
The Courtesy Laugh – https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-courtesy-laugh/id1349945507
Meaghan Porter Twitter – https://twitter.com/MeaghanEPorter
Erin Moon interview – https://curreyblandford.com/erin-moon/
TRANSCRIPT
Currey (Intro) – What is going on? Everybody, welcome to A Theology of Hustle. I’m your host Currey Blandford and today I’m talking to Knox McCoy. Uh, I’m super excited for you to hear from Knox. Somebody I’ve, I’ve known, uh, of for a long time. Uh, he is the co founder of the Popcast media group and they put on the shows the Popcast and the Bible Binge, which I am a big fan of. My wife and I actually have been to a popcast live show here in Chicago. They’re just doing amazing stuff. Um, I’ve, and I’ve had his COO Erin Moon on you can check the, uh, older episodes for that one. It’s really good. And so, uh, I saw Knox had a book coming out called All Things Reconsidered and I was like, Hey, this is the time to get him on the show to talk about the book. And so, uh, I have to tell you, I was not sure what to expect. I had read his previous book, The Wondering Years, but, uh, All Things Reconsidered is real good. It’s a, it’s a very enjoyable book and it’s, um, it’s about that. It’s about like how we reconsider things, how we reconsider ideas. And, um, and it’s not like here’s a bunch of theological concepts. Let’s reconsider them. We, he goes through all sorts of amazing stuff in his, um, in his humorous style, uh, through this book. And it’s just really, it’s really an enjoyable read and it’s also thought provoking. And we talk a lot about that in this episode. We talk about pop culture, we talk about what it means to, uh, use pop culture for God’s kingdom. And then we talk about reconsidering all things. And so you get a lot out of this episode. Uh, it’s, it’s an enjoyable episode I have to tell you. Um, you’re just gonna love hearing from Knox if you’ve never listened to him before. He’s just really easy to listen to and, and a, and a great guy in that shows in this episode. And so I can’t wait for you to hear it. Uh, just a quick reminder that you a, make sure you’re following me on Instagram and Facebook @theolgoyofhustle and on Twitter @curreyblandford. You can stay up to date with the podcast at all those places. And yeah, I hope you, uh, enjoy reconsidering all things with Knox McCoy
Currey – Knox. Man. It’s so good to hang out a little bit and chat. Thanks for coming on the podcast, man.
Knox McCoy – Man, thanks so much for having me. I’m really appreciate it. I love being here some, I’m very excited to, uh, to talk today.
Currey – That’s awesome man. Uh, well let’s just, uh, jump off here and just have you kind of introduce yourself a little bit to everyone.
Knox McCoy – Yeah. So my name is Knox McCoy. Uh, married to my wife Ashley. She’s at The Bluest Willow on Instagram. We got three kids live in Birmingham, Alabama. Uh, professionally. Uh, I am the co-owner of a podcast company. We call it the Popcast Media Group. Um, we have the podcast with Jamie, it’s my business partner, Jamie Golden. We also do the Bible binge, uh, together and we have a new show that’s just me. All things recapped where right now I’m recapping survivor but You know, I’ll do movies, TV shows, stuff like that. And then, you know, lastly, and I always forget this part man, like I’m always like, Oh yeah. And then books, I wrote books. Like it was my whole dream thing as well. A little side thing, right. So I’ve, I’ve written two books, uh, The Wondering Years, which came out in 2018. Uh, and then most recently I finished All Things Reconsidered that’s due out this June. So that’s pretty much it. Dude.
Currey – That’s a, that’s nice. It’s like you rehearsed that or something. That was well done. I set a timer to timer too. I can only imagine. That’s awesome. Okay. Let’s, um, let’s dig back through the story then. Kind of the trajectory too. Cause I mean, owning a podcast media group is, you know, uh, unique, I would say there’s, yeah. So let’s, how did, like how did you get started in even like podcasting?
Knox McCoy – No. Okay. So, um, you know, I started, I think my, um, you know, I, I arose out of the primordial soup of, into the internet and like 2008, you know, and I was kind of a frustrated writer and I was doing the blog thing like everybody else was. And uh, at a certain point I went to a, uh, a blog conference and met some friends I, I’d already kinda been close to. And when we’d, uh, talked a lot on the phone, um, and it was there, I met Jamie and I met Erin moon, uh, who we all share an office now we have a business together. But before them, um, it was these three other guys and they were like, Hey, we’ve been looking into this podcasting thing and we want to try it. And at that point I’d been listening for a long time because a lot of my work was very monotonous and I had a lot of salty. So I was like, I can, I can listen. And I just remember thinking, that is so dumb. What a waste of time. You know what I mean? Like how, how audacious to think you could do something like that. But of course I was a frustrated writer, so I was like, maybe this could help me write a book eventually one day. So we started doing a show, um, and that’s when I kind of learned the ins and outs and I learned, I think part of the thing with, uh, blogging that I didn’t realize in the moment but was like lurking in the subconscious was T to get someone to read your blog, you have to get them, get their attention, get them to spend time on this specific web address and you have to be good enough that you keep them. And I wasn’t good at any of those things. So with podcasting though, it was like, man, you can do this, you can talk and people can run errands. And there was an interesting aspect to that, but I thought this could scale a little bit. So from there, um, I, uh, I stopped podcasting and those guys developed a podcast network with my, uh, my best friend, Jason waterfalls. And, uh, that never took off. Uh, because we had, we had, it’s a long story. We had a lot of shows, but none of them were hitting really well. And eventually Jason’s wife got pregnant. He was like, I’m going to, I need a balance because, you know, I’ve got twins on the way. And uh, Jamie had been on the network and we had done a couple of things and that’s when we were like, Hey, maybe, maybe we should give this a go and just, you know, kind of see what happens.
Currey – Right. Yeah. That’s awesome. I mean, yeah, cause even blogging, I mean it’s so saturated, right? And podcasting is now the same way, but it is, I mean it’s this race to sort of like grab attention, like sort of wherever you can. It’s like a, a serious hustle. Right?
Knox McCoy – It really is. And in a lot of ways people I’ve heard people talk about, you know, are, are we in a podcasting bubble? And I definitely, there’s a saturation and definitely there’s only a certain amount time people have to listen. Right? But in regards to something like, I think it’s different in the, in the S it’s different from blogging in the sense that there’s so much more time people can spend listening as opposed to sitting and reading plus attention spans are just not suited for that. And with podcasting you can go longer on a series topic or you can go a micro podcast, you can get 10 minutes right now and there’s a lot of different ways to do things there that at least that’s what I tell myself as the one.
Currey – Right. That’s true. That’s true. But there is an ease to like throwing something on in the car while you’re driving. Right. I mean it’s just much easier than, I guess you could do the same with an audio book, but it feels like there’s a lot more time investment into something. It really does. Yeah, for sure. Uh, so what was the learning curve like in like sort of, you know, starting this business with the, you know, all that.
Knox McCoy – Yeah. You know, it was pretty steep. And you know, we were, we were joking before we started recording and we’re just talking about like, just bad audio podcast and there’s, there’s a lot. And when we were talking I thought, Oh yeah, like I’ve been totally guilty of that. Like the first, I don’t know, 50% of the podcast was bad audio, you know, because I just, I was a English major, you know, and in college and I had no intentions to do anything musically or sonically or any kind of, uh, even like, uh, editing software. Speaker 2 07:34 But it was that thing of I got, you know, halfway through college and I was like, I can’t teach, I don’t want to teach what do I do with an English degree? And so it just turns into this thing. So it was a lot of it was self taught and, um, I think some people can self-teach really well. I don’t know that I’m one of those, I’m not a finesse guy, you know, but with audio, you do have to become a finesse person. So, you know, in terms of, um, I think the biggest, the biggest difficulty really was me teaching myself how to edit because Jamie, uh, my, my partner, she came into this as a marketing wizard and nothing really changed. She had to learn how — — to, you know, uh, suit that for the podcast. Sure. But she was already very skilled in that regard. And conversely, I was not skilled at all whatsoever, you know. So, but I think, uh, with podcasting, I think the misnomer is you just sit down and you just like talk and it’s all gold and then you publish that thing. Right. You need to make a lot of money and it’s not what I, I think two years in I found out, Oh you know, it’s better than like an hour episode, a really tight 40 minute episode. Yeah, you’re right. All the best stuff, you know. And that’s when we really started to skyrocket.
Currey – Yeah. Well that’s hard cause you, I mean you do some pretty complicated cutting too as well, like right. Cause you kind of open, you know, open the show with a sure. A pithy saying or quote or something funny. Right?
Knox McCoy – Yeah. Yeah. That was, you know, the first thing I did, it was, it was called the courtesy laugh and it, I think it went away, but someone republished it or one of the guys, uh, and so you can listen to part of it. I didn’t edit that, but I’ll watch the guy who did and something he did. His name’s just a crave and he’s a good friend still. He would start with a cold open. And I remember thinking like, that’s genius. I love that. Yeah. And you know, even from SNL you’re, you’re suited to like you like this rolling in. And I always liked the idea that you just start, you hit play and you don’t know what you’re going to hear, but it’s kinda going to be ridiculous and hopefully funny and it gets you in a good mood. You know, that’s the plan. Adelaide for sure.
Currey – No, I love it. I think that’s great. Um, okay. So something I’ve been wanting to ask you these sorts of questions for ever, right, but why pop culture, like, like what is it about pop culture that sorta like keeps you like coming back to it or yeah, yeah that, no, that’s, that’s great.
Knox McCoy – I think a lot of it was um, you know, growing up I loved, you know, grew up in the evangelical South, right? So like you probably, if you’re familiar with that, you have a pretty good idea of what my childhood was. You know, there’s not a lot of like wrinkles there. Um, I was obsessed with playing sports and watching sports. Conversely, I was also like obsessed with, uh, not a 2.0 and like Dawson’s Creek and the OCC and say by the bell, you know, so there were these like two parts of my brain and it was like, they don’t really fit at all. But I think a lot of it too was when you’re trying to build an audience, it feels like the easiest thing, like as a writer, you know, on the early days of the blog, the easiest thing to write about is, uh, the stuff world watching and pop culture presents itself as a kind of a language of the people. So if you’re trying to find commonality, I think a lot of us try to act like, you know, if we’re Christians we can, we can find it over like, uh, the book of Deuteronomy. Like, Oh gosh, we all know Deuteronomy. Let’s talk about Deuteronomy. No one was talking about Deuteronomy, you know, people are talking about the bachelor cause we all watched the bachelor and that’s crazy. So let’s talk about that. So I think part of it was just an actual affection, enthusiasm. But also too, it’s like they’re in a, in a increasingly more fractured worlds. You know, it’s fun to watch stuff together. It’s fun to find community together over a common thing that we’re watching or a movie or TV show or something.
Currey – Right. Well because it’s just interesting, like you say, you’re from the Christian, you know, grew up evangelical South. Like there is maybe nothing more antithetical to that way of growing up than like pop culture, right?
Knox McCoy – Like, or 100%. Like, it’s just so not in the realm of like what the evangelical South necessarily does or like, you know. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, Ashley and I, my wife, we, uh, we moved two years ago and a big component of it was, um, Aaron and Jamie both live in Birmingham. And I love Birmingham wanting to move. I went to college there for a year, wanting to come back. Always part of it was we knew it was time for a change for our family, you know, but there’s like a, a decent slice of the pie that was like, not only is my work revolving around pop culture, uh, like you mentioned earlier, I also own a podcast company, so that’s a difficult conversation to have. Right. And not that everyone was like, that’s weird. You’re the worst. But it was just, you know, when you’re in a small group with, uh, doctors, lawyers, firemen, policemen, teachers, and you’re like, I own a, can we just move on? I don’t want to explain what I do. I don’t want to do this, you know? So there was like a bit of an alienation feeling, you know, and not that anyone was making you feel like that, but there’s like a, I don’t, I don’t fit here. I don’t belong here. You know, like I need to, I need to find somewhere else that if even if I don’t fit there either, there’s not that, those roots of like, what is not, what’s Knox doing? How does he do, did they have money? Do they pay bills? Like what’s happening here, you know?
Currey – Yeah. Yeah. So how did you, how do you think about sort of infusing like your faith into something like that into, into pop culture? Sure. So, you know, from the, the job I left to really go overdrive into, uh, the Popcast was a, I was a, I was lead writer for Skit Guys dot com. Um, and that is a very, that’s very much a, we’re a Christian company and we’re going to try and have fun here. So already that’s like, what, what do you, what do you mean? Like how do we do that? And they make videos and mini movies and they tried to, you know, articulate a belief in faith in a funny, clever way. And I really loved that about them. Um, and I think that was a really good branching off point because already in my head I knew like, I’d never thought, you know, thought, well, I think a Rite of passage and growing up in the South and the evangelical South is, should I become a youth minister? If you’re a guy that’s just, you just do that, you know, and um, that was never me. I just, I knew from a very early age, I’m not suited for ministry and it’s not like I don’t, I’m better than ministry. It’s, I, I would not be good at ministry. You know what I mean? That’s not my personality type. That is not my gift. That is not my talent. So I never felt like, Oh man, like I got to find out how to be in the, in the God profession. But I think, you know, being a skit guys and also, um, never having the, the mental urgency or insecurity of like, how am I going to be in this ministry process? I think that’s always kind of, um, subtly or subconsciously affected the work I do with podcasts because I was always on the team of, you don’t have to be in professional ministry to be ministering to people, right? You don’t have to be, uh, like talking about Bible verses to be speaking to people’s heart. You can do that in a lot of ways. And we saw that in the podcasts. A lot of people will talk about, you know, this was a stupid episode. You guys talk about really stupid things. But, uh, I’ve got a parents going through cancer and this was really great just to kind of lose myself in for a little bit. And something we’ve said a lot on the show is we think that we, we truly believe, and I got this actually as one of the guys from skid guys taught me this, uh, humor breaks down walls. So truth can enter. So if you can make someone, you can put them at ease and like that you can build, um, an investment with them and equity with them. So then when you do want to talk about some more serious stuff, it’s like, okay, I know where this person’s coming from. There. They’re not trying to barrage me with um, uh, a witness and proselytizing. They’re just like, they’re a good person. And I, and I kind of want to hear what they say. So you know, we do that and the Popcast is surely more secular and more pop culture. But then a couple of years ago we also launched the Bible bench where I think that’s, I won’t speak for Jamie. I know that really, cause she has been in traditional ministry and that really was a good step for her of like, now we’re actually literally in ministry and what we’re talking about here. Uh, but for me it was more, you know, I think this is a really creative, interesting way to talk about the Bible because I’m not a smart Bible person, but I want to talk about it and I love reading about it. So can we create a space where we have the safety to do that? And, and we’re able to do that mostly because, you know, we, we take a story, we recap it like it’s a book movie or TV show, but also we’ve installed Erin as the Bible scholar because she is traditionally like, she actually knows what she’s talking about. So if we happen to be sacrilegious, we’re not trying to be, but sometimes we our own attentionally she’s there to be like, Hey, you were sacrilegious, don’t do that. And we’re like, great, thank you. So it’s a good safety net. And I think a lot of people, when they’re thinking about God talking to God are talking about the Bible. They, the stakes feel too high. And it’s like, I’d rather just not talk about this than say something that I might go to hell for that. Just, I, I’d rather just play a savior. So the, the plan there and the, and hopefully the ministry there is we’re going to do this show in this episode and invite you in and you can kind of think and talk in the same ways. And it’s, it’s, and it’s okay because we’re, we’re pursuing a better understanding of, of God or the story of the Bible.
Currey – Yeah, for sure. Uh, I mean, and from what I’ve read, like in your book, and you talked about the Bible binge and it coming out, I mean, it’s been personally very impactful for you as well. Right?
Knox McCoy – Incredibly impactful. It’s, uh, I, I think, you know, when we were testing the idea, because it was on an episode of the podcast where we talked about, I think siblings, and we ended up talking about Jacob and Esau and someone said, you should do, like, you should do, uh, an episode about, about the Bible or a show about the Bible. I’d listen to that. And we start kicking that idea around and we asked a lot of people close to us and we’re like, what do you guys think if like we talked about the Bible and they’re like, don’t do that. We can’t think of two people less qualified or with less nuance to do that. So we did it anyway. But the, the process of being like, I’m going to talk about Noah, or I’m going to talk about Jacob, or I’m going to talk about, and the donkey, you have to know what you think about that because people are going to listen and people are going to say, Hey, you said this, and I don’t know that I like it or I disagree with it. And I, and I don’t know if everyone’s like that, but for me specifically, it’s like you don’t, I don’t care if you don’t agree with me, but if I’m incompetent about this or if I proved to be intellectually untrustworthy, that like freaks me out. So we can disagree. But at least I know what I’ve said and why I’ve said it and, and, and I like that. So the process of doing that show has led me to a point of like, I gotta really double down on why I believe what I believe. Um, and, and be able to articulate that to people. Yeah, for sure. I think that’s important. And what I love about the Bible binge, uh, is like, there is that sort of leveling. I feel like people feel like they can’t really talk about the Bible or like God, unless they have some sort of degree or like, you know, in vocational ministry or whatever. And like, that’s just like so far from the truth. I mean, we should be having conversations about the Bible, like, as you know, just people. I mean, that’s, yes. How it should be. You know, I remember cause have you like, have you felt, you know, whatever your church situation is, have you ever been in a city? Like have you ever felt comfortable enough to be like, yeah, but like could this sort of be a metaphor? Like is that, is that okay? Like that’s never been my experience and I don’t want to project on other people. Maybe that is how the conversations are having, I remember sitting in a small group and we’re talking about Jonah and the whale and I remember just thinking, I think that’s a metaphor. I think it’s like a, it’s like a parable and it’s not real, but it doesn’t mean it’s not powerful. But I did not feel permission and these are people I’m close with and I do life with and I thought, I don’t want to freak anybody out or be the weird guy. So I’m just not going to talk about that. But has that been your experience? Have you felt that freedom, you know, as a believer to, to not challenge but just like, like call into question, your understanding of an established story?
Currey – I mean, I, I guess so. I mean, I, I have the degrees though, right? Like I have and I’m the pastor, so it’s like, yeah, uh, if I want to, I can, I guess got the receipts and you’re like, I can do whatever I want. Well, but there’s another aspect to that where like, you’re also because of that positional authority, it’s like, uh, just making sure you handle all those topics like I think very delicately. You know what I mean? That’s like the really tricky part of it all. So in that respect, is it like you have to be the adult and like you feel like I can maybe think these things, but if I say something that’s going to freak people out, if, if me, if like Knox’s something, what does he know? He’s, he barely graduated with an English degree. That doesn’t matter, you know, but you have degrees, so you had to be more careful. Is that, is that like how you felt about it?
Currey – I don’t know. I don’t know that I’ve ever actually really like sat down and processed it. I’m a bit of an internal processor too. So, um, I don’t know. I feel like, I feel like if I know something for sure, like if I’m, if I’ve done the research and like I have a pretty good feel for something, I am unashamedly, uh, open about my opinions. I think I’m also very hesitant to sort of like verbally process with this intention of like, Hey, this Currey’s like citing this as, as like gospel truth or something. Does that make sense?
Knox McCoy – Yeah. No, no, it totally makes sense. Totally makes sense.
Currey – Yeah. But we don’t, but I think in general we’re so partisan and maybe that’s a bad word for it, cause that says it sounds political but we’re so like on opposite sides of the spectrum. And like even in a conversation like we’re having, you know, you’re like, can you give little hints about sort of like what you believe about things in order to sorta like make it, make it a comfortable for everybody, you know, so we’re all on the same page and if not, we’re about to go to war.
Knox McCoy – Right. And, and a lot of it is like you breadcrumb things. And like if I said, if I just said Joanna and I feel like it’s a parable and like you threw up, I’d be like, okay, okay, you can’t do that. I’ll reel it back a little bit. Yeah. But I think we’re so, um, it’s not just like our belief in a story or a character or a book or whatever in the Bible, there’s so much worldview and identity and a nostalgia attached to it. So it’s not just like you’re changing how I understand the story. It’s like you are threatening all these other things I’ve attached to it and I’m not, I’m not ready to do that. I’m not ready to have that conversation yet. But you know, sometimes it’s worthwhile
Currey – for sure. Well, I mean, we just like totally inadvertently stumbled into all things reconsidered basically.
Knox McCoy – Right. We totally did.
Currey – So we might as well go there. Right. I think we should, maybe we should. What was the intention behind writing all things reconsidered?
Knox McCoy – So, um, I, I, you know, I’ve written a little bit about this on my newsletter, uh, sectional healing, but I originally I thought I was, cause I signed a two book contract with my publisher. Um, and I did the winter years. I thought I was going to have, you know, sometimes I guess with contracts when the language isn’t nailed down, you have an idea of what that means and they have an idea and they usually win that battle. So it was this thing of like, I think I have like two years. And they’re like, no, you have like five months. So figure it out. And I had a couple ideas I was banging around and I just couldn’t like figure them out yet. And the thing I kept coming back to was this idea of reconsideration because the end of the wondering years, it ends with this chapter where I, my dad’s gotten cancer and it’s not the cliche like, Oh my God, like why God, why, you know, but it’s more like, Whoa, Hmm, this is new, this is like a big hurdle. Now what do I actually believe about stuff? So in a lot of ways all things are considered as a spiritual successor to that book or SQL to that book. Not in a Christian way because I think you know, the one of yours is a very, um, I dunno, it’s a deep dive into the formation of my, my spiritual identity, right? So it’s very forward facing Christian book. This is, you know, the first few sections really are not about God at all. It’s it’s just about reconsidering yourself, reconsider your life. But then the last section very much is so I think in a lot of ways the end of the one of your set off this like what not only like what do I think about my faith, but like what do I think about anything? Because the, and the, the premise in the introduction of all things were considered as so much is happening so fast. We were inundated with information. We have social media, we are barely registering anything that we’re thinking or are consuming. Yeah. But what if we took a second and we were like, well, what if we look a little deeper? And I think that applies certainly to your life and yourself. But you know, the logical, I didn’t necessarily go into a wanting to write about heaven or hell or prayer, but it felt like I can’t do this book and not talk about those things because I don’t know about those things, you know? Right. Yeah. Uh, it was good. I, I’m not sure, I’m not sure I want to approach this.
Currey – Okay. So one of the things that kind of was a was a paradigm shift for me, like in the very front of the book is you talked about even writing the book and how, uh, you had thought that you kind of like come up with an idea and you write about it, but that writing’s more of an exploration, like a, the process of, of kind of coming to something is, yeah.
Knox McCoy – Yeah. You know, I think, I don’t know, I’m going to mess the quote up, but I’m pretty sure it’s Flannery O’Connor and I think she was like, I write because I need to know what I think about stuff and I’m sure I murdered that. But that’s, that’s always resonated with me of like, I’m in this book is probably, and maybe I’m just not that kind of writer. I think a lot of people are writing from a place of authority and there are some very worthy people who were like, I actually, you should trust me. You know, and listen to me, that’s not me. I’m not that person. But I think the thing, I tried to bring the tables, like I trust my process, trust the thing I’m trying to accomplish and not necessarily where I landed because all of this is through. Maybe it’s like I’m a, I’m a voyeur author. I’m like, just watch me. And this might not be pretty or fun, but like I feel like you can take some stuff that you can apply to your own life out of this. And I, in a lot of ways, I would start out with these topics and be like, so let’s talk about what it mean. Reconsider home. What does it mean to feel home? What is home? And I started, I wouldn’t really know what I thought about it, but in the process of unpacking it would be like, okay, yeah, I feel a theme here. I think I understand a little better, you know? And I think I can resolve this in a very honest and accurate way.
Currey – Yeah. Well, I mean, you say on one hand you’re not an expert and you know, uh, but I think your gift and, uh, the gift in this book that you like, sort of like bring out is your ability, your authenticity like comes out over and over again because like, being able to reconsider like these deeply held, you know, beliefs or whatever takes a lot of authenticity, honestly, you know, a lot of humility, you know? And so, yeah, I think your expertise comes in sort of like, yeah, like you said, the process of like, this is how I make sure that I’m being intellectually honest with myself, you know?
Knox McCoy – Yeah, yeah. You know, I think, and I don’t even know if I wrote this in the book or somewhere else, but I think it’s a, I felt a lot of people are being authentic right now and it’s great, but I think sometimes the authenticity doesn’t come with vulnerability and that is something that’s been really difficult for me. I don’t, I don’t want to be publicly vulnerable at all. Like that is the last thing my personality type wants to be. But for me, like with a book like this, it vulnerability was a requirements, you know, it felt like, if nothing else, I have to be very transparent, honest, otherwise this comes across as like, and then I lived happily ever after and everything is so good. You know? It’s like, I don’t know, I think I have some problems here that I have to deal with that isn’t really the point of this chapter. But just I’m aware of this now in the process of writing this chapter and I think, I don’t know, and I think we’re all guilty of it. I’m certainly guilty of it. The curation of identity and of like experience and of life. That is, I don’t even know if that’s, that feels just like a prerequisite of being on the internet and any capacity. So it’s not like someone is specifically guilty of it. Speaker 2 27:30 We’re all guilty of it, but I think there needs to also be some uncurated vulnerability there that isn’t like, um, my biggest weakness is that I care too much, you know, like, no, that doesn’t count. It needs to be like, um, I like, I don’t like who I am as a person. I don’t like my personality — — type and I’m really always trying to reengineer that and change it. And what does that mean? Like psychologically, you know? Yeah, for sure. Yeah. I mean those are the, those are the hard, hard things to talk about. Right. And I think if anybody truly understands, I know your Enneagram, if you truly understand, they are sorta Enneagram type. Like I think there’s a natural predisposition to not like, you know, the things that you, uh, find out about yourself. Right? Sure. Yeah. Well, you know, there was like, there was a honeymoon phase for me where I was like, um, cause I’m an integrated five and I’m like, I love you to integrate in five. It’s the best. It’s like I’m, I’m biased, but I love it. It’s incredible and it’s the best. But you know, there was certain stuff with the podcast where I would, you know, certain different requirements where I was like, Oh yeah, this is a reliability. This is a huge liability. And only that, like I’ve, I’ve, you know, idolize my dad and I’ll always wanted to be like him. And he’s a three and threes get so much done. They’re so good at everything. And I like, I’ve internalized wanting to be like that, but also, but I don’t have the reserves, I just can’t do that. So there’s that balance of like, it was finally this dawning on me of like, Oh yeah, like your Enneagram sucks. You know, just like everyone else’s has sucky parts. But it was really like, actually it’s not the best and you’re really bad at a lot of components of this thing. Yeah. I mean that’s the, that’s the, that’s the tricky part of it all. Right. For sure. Yeah. I, I very much get that and resonate with that. Um, yeah. So, uh, so why do you think that we are so like as you wrote this book, I guess as your discovery process went on, like what do you think it is about us that is so hesitant to like reconsider things? You know, I think it was a little bit of what we talked about earlier. It’s just there. I, well I think one, it’s time. I think we just don’t have time. It’s like, um, I, I’ve got three kids and their soccer and lacrosse and maybe I could rethink what I think about hell, but like that, like a lot and I just don’t have time for that right now, you know? But I think a lot of it too is what we were saying earlier. It’s, there’s so much, um, identity and experience. I think a lot of it, I mean, I don’t know, like I don’t want to like prosecute everyone’s belief, so I’m going to paint with a broad brush, but I don’t really know if this specifically applies to everybody. I think a lot of us we, or I’ll speak to myself, how about that? For myself, I grew up in the church. I was, you know, 33 ish and I was like, Oh yeah, I don’t, I just don’t know what I believe about anything. I know like what, I know the talking points and I know what I’ve learned, but I don’t know. I’ve, I’ve accepted this idea of Satan. I don’t know what I believe about Satan. I don’t know what I believe about heaven. My idea of like, no joke, my idea, and I think I talk about in this book, my idea of heaven was like lazy rivers, chicken nuggets, frickin velociraptors that are friendly. Like what are you talking about? You know? And like, sure. A lot of that’s blown out and like dumb. But there was, there was a component of like, I need that to be heaven and I don’t need it to be just an eternal worship service cause I don’t want to do that. That sounds like the worst, you know? But it’s like do, is there anything to land on? So in terms of reconsideration, I think it’s a scary thing and I think a lot of people, especially Christians think you pull one little thread, whole thing comes down, right? So best not to just pull the thread and maybe you’re a little wrong or maybe you don’t know exactly what you think and why you think it, but it’s better to become like a nihilistic atheist. Right? That’s the worst case scenario for a lot of people.
Currey – Right. I just, yeah, and I totally agree with you. I just like kept going back to that. Like if there is a thread that could be pulled that wrecks your whole faith and what is your faith sort of based on that.
Knox McCoy – Yeah. Yeah. What’s it built on? You know, and there’s, there’s a chapter in the book where I felt really compelled to write it because I thought, I’m poking a lot of holes right now and myself and, and you know, to be fair, I talk about a lot of important things I feel like are important. Spiritual. She’s to me, some I change, some I stay the same and some of them like I don’t know. And, and, and I think that’s okay for it buddy. It’s okay to say, I don’t know about what you believe and keep pursuing that thing, but I felt really compelled to write a chapter of like, here’s why, here’s why I stay, here’s why I’m here. And it, cause I’m always prone to being on that, that cliff of like nothingness and nothing matters and nothing’s real. You know? And probably this is a simulation, you know? And I think if nothing else while you’re reconsidering or even if you’re not, I think it’s important to identify like what is the thing that keeps you no matter what and the thing you find all of your faith in, in, in maybe it’s Jesus and that’s cool. But like what aspect of Jesus, what, what line are you drawing from that? And that’s your anchor. That’s your constant. If we’re gonna do, do you watch lost? You lost man. I have not, unfortunately not. Okay. So there’s a, there’s a Desmond penny, it’s going to go over your head, but people have watched lost. They’re like, yes, our hundred percent. What’s your constant in your faith and what keeps you there? And I think that’s, I don’t know, maybe that’s first thing you do and then you start pulling apart some stuff because otherwise he can get a little buck wild in there. But I think it’s important to like, not just reconsider stuff, but also like, um, consider the thing that keeps you tethered to some kind of faith, you know?
Currey – Yeah, yeah. I totally, no, I totally agree in community. I think community’s an important part of all of that. Like, uh, Oh, 100% as an Enneagram five. I’m like, I don’t know about that, but I recognize the truth of what you’re saying, you know, even though I’m not good at that. Right. Yeah, totally. Um, so my worst fear was just realized in that, like you gave a pop culture reference and I had no idea what was going on because I’m so pop culture illiterate, like, yeah. Or I’m like pop culturally sensitive to like weird areas of the world, like underground hip hop or something like okay. It’s no sense, you know, but like, like general pop culture, I just, I’m so ignorant about most of it I guess.
Knox McCoy – Do you feel shame about that or do you feel pride in that or has that changed?
Currey – Man, good question. I don’t know that I feel either way. It’s just never seemed like a priority to me. Sure. Like worth investing, like copious amounts of time, you know?
Knox McCoy – Yeah. Well you have theology degrees instead.
Currey – I don’t, so I know about loss, you know, the more important than that though. I also have three children like you do. And my cultural expertise now is like children’s movies that I’ve watched over and over again. Right.
Knox McCoy – Oh yeah. And, and to be sure if we didn’t have a business based around pop culture, I would not have an expansive knowledge as I do. I’d still, you know, I still love it fundamentally, but I wouldn’t be as you know, expansive about it. But I think, and I think that’s a lot of people, it’s like you don’t, you don’t have to know everything about pop culture, like be enthusiastic about things. You’re enthusiastic about it. And that’s cool. Right. Cause it’s such a, there’s such a rich tapestry out there of pop cultural things to be excited about. Yeah, for sure. Um, no doubt.
Currey – Yeah. Uh, sorry, I had a follow up, I had a thought and then I totally got lost cause you hate that. I feel like that’s happening to me more and more now. It’s an old guy. You gotta write stuff down man. Cause I don’t know. I do not remember anything. I feel like though, like what I write stuff down in an interview like this, it becomes like inauthentic in my mind. Like, cause it’s such a conversation, like I don’t want to be like constantly thinking of questions while you’re talking, you know?
Knox McCoy – So yeah, we’ll see. I’ll write stuff down and it’ll be like, it’ll be a thing. I’ll be like, shadow, write the word shadow and you’ll remember. And then I’ll just be like, what is this? Now there’s a mystery to unravel here.
Currey – Oh, I did, I did. Back to the pop culture thing. Do you ever find yourself sort of getting like, like is it ever very difficult to sort of stay up on pop culture for you?
Knox McCoy – Yeah, it is. You know, it’s, uh, it is because there’s just no time. And I, I, I never will be the dad that’s like go away child. I have to write binge the third season of — — altered carbon or whatever, you know? And it’s like, I’ve got to, I’ve got to still play my part of like, I’m a dad, I’m very, uh, uh, involved and active and I invest in those relationships, but it’s like, that leaves me, you know, two and a half, three hours a night. And, and, and the hard part is you start watching a show and it’s like, this sucks, you know, and I’ve burnt an hour and now I’ve got gotta find something else to watch that I can talk about, you know? So, yeah, it’s, it’s tough. It’s exhausting. And sometimes it’s like, I don’t want to watch this super sad show or whatever. Like I started watching astronaut or watching the little fires everywhere on Hulu. I was like, this, it’s well made. It’s Reese Witherspoon. Uh, and it’s a, I remember the other girl’s name, but it’s like, this is putting me in a bad mood. I don’t lie. This isn’t a good hang, but I know I’ve gotta be able to talk about it, you know? So that’s basically, this is how like I’m digging ditches, right? That’s my version. I get that. I think that’s a good analogy for sure. Kerry Washington Washington, so that’s okay. Yeah. Well, is there the Ashley factor though too? I mean, sometime Ashley, like I do not want to watch this, you know? Yes. 1000%. And, and it’s a balance because I have to make her watch so much stuff that she does not want to watch that when she’s like, Hey, guess what? We’re watching Outlander and just going to deal with it. And I’m like, you’re right. You’ve earned this. I need to respect this Scotty signs boundary for you,
Currey – JJ. Really tried to get me to watch cheer the other night and like, okay, I, I just, well she actually ended up turning it off, but I was like, yeah, I’m, I, I’m down if that’s really what you want, you know? But uh, yeah, just not my thing necessarily, I guess so.
Knox McCoy – Sure. But you guys, you got to jump on some of those grenades, you know, cause I know she does for me and I’m like, Hey, I’ll just do that. I’ll do the millennial second screen thing and I’m watching, but I’m also working and that’s okay. You know, and we’re still like very happily married so it works. That’s, Hey, that’s all that matters right there. That’s good.
Currey – Uh, okay, so you talk about a lot of controversial things in the book. I did not expect you in the book to tackle maybe the most controversial thing in the whole book, which is LeBron versus MJ. I was sure shocked. I could not believe. Well, I couldn’t believe you delved into those waters. I mean of all the controversies to like get in big trouble over. That’s like a major one.
Knox McCoy – I feel like Currey, listen, when I was writing the book, I was like, you can’t respect yourself as a human, as a writer, as a sports fan, and not take on this issue because this is an issue I felt very passionate about and I had to remove the passion. I’d be like, you’re not a passionate person. You are a doctor. You’re a clinic, a clinical, um, uh, observer of sports and you have to approach it like that. And I thought at the end of my research, I was like, yeah, you arrived at the right, right place here. I think I, so where do you, where’d you land on the, I’m very on board with you. Uh, with the, with the LeBron stuff. I’ve thought that for a long time. There’s so, but there’s so much like Pete and I live in Chicago, people are so emotional about MJ. Like, Oh yeah, like they don’t even realize like what like built up in them to like, they freak out, they lose their minds, you know? But I think, I wish I could say that I did this intentionally. I didn’t, but now that we’re talking about it, I think that is a really great corollary of like unpacking of spiritual belief because Michael Jordan, it’s very, it’s, it’s not about the S the stats or the titles. I mean it is, yeah. But a lot of it is just like, I remember being 12 years old and watching him hit that shot against the jazz. Right. Emma? Like, you cannot take that from me, do not take that for me. You know? So there’s so much attached to saying, actually I think LeBron James is the greatest basketball player of all time. It’s, it’s such a, I dunno, it’s a fool’s errand to try something like that, but I gotta, you know, the head sees what the head sees and like that’s what it is. LeBron is the greatest of all time. I, um, I’m going to agree with you. We’re probably going to get hate mail, but nobody emails me. So you’re — — going to bring it up, bring it on, bring it on.
Currey – Yeah, I do. I do. And this is like a little, probably belaboring the point, but I do wonder even, uh, why Kobe was never in the conversation, like at all, you know, I mean, he’s never sort of in that, in that realm.
Knox McCoy – Uh, when, I mean he has stats, you know, uh, he’s got the stats and he’s certainly got the titles, you know, and I think if he’s ever, okay, so like if he’s ever going to be in that conversation, it’s now, you know, post his super tragic death. But I think that’s another, that’s another reconsideration of like in the moment watching Kobe a lot of is like, this sucks. He’s a ball hog and he seems like the worst to play with. And I’m not like trying to denigrate him. That was just like the object that was the object of analysis of what he is. But I think in the later part of his career, he really turned around once he got us all. Um, and, and there’s something, I think he’s as close to Jordan as we’re ever going to get, and that’s, that’s the highest compliment you can give someone, I think.
Currey – Yeah, I agree. I totally agree. He um, yeah it is, it’s, it’s crazy times, uh, with all of that stuff. So, but I, but you did bring it back to the character piece and I think that’s the piece missing from both of thoseKobe and MJ that LeBron has really like never stepped into something like major, major, you know, as far as failing goes,
Knox McCoy – you know, and the stuff with MJ really got, it just wasn’t the media landscape then cause obviously you know, so he’s a serial Flander he had tons of gambling dads, right? He was a Butthead to his teammates. That’s established. We know that, but it’s just, that wasn’t the media landscape then to, to hype on that. It conversely, if LeBron LeBron goes on TV, it makes decision go to Miami and we act like he’s crucified a puppy dog, you know, which it was a bad move, but it’s like, it’s a little different guys. It’s a different world and we need to just like the rules and the physicality was different back in the day. We have to evaluate these things differently, you know, for different moment for sure. For sure. Well, kudos to you for jumping in on that. Thank you. I feel very brave right now, so you’re making me feel better. That’s good.
Currey – That’s good. Uh, yeah, I mean the book is just so you have an ability to write a comically and I feel like it’s, it’s, it’s an, uh, it’s an ability that like, like if I try to be funny writing, which I don’t often, I just come off like a big jerk. You know what I mean? Like it’s, there’s a, like there’s a, there’s a gift to being able to write like comedically. I think I appreciate that.
Knox McCoy – I think, um, I’ve, I’ve worked a long time to try to develop a voice. I think that’s just my natural voice is to what, be whatever. But also like, especially in a book that doesn’t translate always. And I think in certain parts of the wandering years it doesn’t translate well. But I think when it does, it is the product of some really good editors. I have one in particular, Megan Porter is her name. You can find her on Twitter. She’s incredible editor and she’ll take you and it’ll be like, I know you’re trying to be funny here and you can still kind of get there, but this is not the place for this, you know, don’t do that now. Or you know, there’s a sanding or finessing. So it’s a L, it’s the, the, the combined efforts of a lot of really talented people to have. We need that out. You need that sanity somewhere there. Right. You really do. Yeah. Um, the footnotes though, my favorite always. So man that I think, I don’t know if I, I’ve stolen that from a billion different people. So I think it started with, as I understand it, and I know they’ve existed forever, but the comedic, um, whatever absurd footnote, start with David Foster Wallace and then I think was stolen Nessel and borrowed by Chuck Klosterman, borrowed by bill Simmons and in shamelessly ripped off by Chris Julie. So there’s original lineage of really great footnote usage.
Currey – That is, that’s a, that is a great lineage right there. That’s awesome. Um, what as you wrote the book, like was one of the hardest parts of this, like reconsidering all things for you? Just on a personal level?
Knox McCoy – You know, I think the, the home chapter was difficult cause I was in the middle of the move and our move was tough because we were leaving family and we were leaving. We had lived in, uh, outside Chattanooga, Tennessee for Ashley, literally never left. And I only left for a year. So that was very much home and all of our families were there and we were taking kids away some and taking grandkids away. And that was really, that was tough. Like emotionally, spiritually. Also just like with family that was hard for everybody to, to deal with. So a lot of it was like writing that, but also trying to write it in a way that wasn’t like, I’m going to, um, silently justify this decision I’ve made because what if I wrote the chapter and I was like, actually that was a mistake. You know, like that was a real fear of mine. But I think along with that prayer, the chapter about prayer was really difficult because yeah, I didn’t realize that I didn’t know anything about prayer and I didn’t realize the degree to which I misunderstood prayer. And I don’t know that I got super understanding it now, but it was like, it’s, you know, like when you have like a every kid as like a necklace and they want to wear it and you’re like, yeah, I’ll untangle it and you get it. And it’s like, Oh my gosh, what happened here? Right. This is all good about level everywhere. What did you do? That’s what it felt like writing that chapter?
Currey – Well, I’ll say that the prayer chapter, uh, was probably the most impactful for me too because you put words to a lot of the feelings that I’ve had, uh, personally about prayer cause it’s, man, it, it’s one of those things that we make seem very straightforward, like just as a people and then you like dig into it and you’re like, wait a minute. Like none of this sort of makes sense.
Knox McCoy – Right? Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate you saying that because that I was very self conscious and still a little self conscious about the chapter of everyone at reading. And she’d be like, how are you making it this hard? It’s so easy and you’ve made it difficult. But I think, I don’t know, I think I, you know, before I started writing the book and especially when I was trying to build the spiritual section out, um, or the face section, I did an Instagram story and I was like, what are the things? And I, and this was a point, I never really did that. So this is a strange thing for me to do. Like what are the things you struggle with? What was tough for you? What have you rethought? And a lot of people came back with prayer and it never dawned on me, you know? And that’s when I really started to dig in. So I think that’s something that resonates with a lot of people for sure.
Currey – Well, it’s one of those stupid platitudes that people bring up. Like if you’re struggling or something, it’s like, well, you should just like pray about it or whatever. And like there’s a lot of Christians that means nothing, right? I mean you did.
Knox McCoy – And like, I’m not trying to denigrate prayer prayers. It’s great. Right? I don’t understand it, but I’m assuming it’s this, it’s this thing I want, I don’t understand, but I want respect. But also you want to like take it apart a little bit and just be like, when I say Hey praying for ya, that literally is a nothing burger of a thing I just told you. Right. You know, but I’m trying to articulate that I care about you and I’m feeling for you because there was someone who reached down and was like, uh, to our show and is like, you know, some, I’m at the Ron McDonald house and my kids, I want to go on treatment and like, I want to respond. Just be like, I’m so sorry. That’s terrible. And I wanted to add something, but it felt like if I literally said, Hey, we’re praying for you, that would feel so nothing, you know, even though we literally would be, but there’s just a nothingness attached to this statement. Like, what do you do? What do you, what are you saying that, you know, situations. So I don’t know. That’s just emotional baggage I’m carrying with me.
Currey – No, I totally agree. I had to, a long time ago I had to stop saying that because I would say it and then never act on it, you know? So if I do say that I want to intent intentionally be like, no, I’m going to sit down and I’m going to intentionally like just like lift you up even, you know, just not actually praying and praying for. Right. Yeah. I think that’s the most disingenuous is to cast it off as like, Oh, I’m praying for you and then not do anything about it. Like you’re into some pretty dark territory there.
Knox McCoy – I feel — — like you’re like three layers deep, real sad stuff. Clarity there. Yeah, no doubt man. Yeah. Cause I would do it all the time. Like it’s cause it’s the easiest thing to do and um, it feels like you did something without actually doing anything. Yeah. It’s, it’s the most empty, meaningful thing you can do, you know? Yeah. Right, right.
Currey – Yeah. Good. Uh, well, I enjoyed, uh, reconsidering all things. Uh, it was a very well done.
Knox McCoy – Um, thank you man. I really appreciate that. That was, um, I really loved the wondering years in the process right in it. I really liked this one a lot more not, you know, at a disrespecting the first book, but this really helped me figure some things out. So hopefully it can help people to, well, they’re very different books, right? I mean, yeah. Um, they’re, uh, yeah, the wondering years was so good. I mean, the stories in the wondering years are just incredible. I mean, just you, right? Like we were, we did a speaking gig recently in Houston and you know, first we started and I made fun of the Astros and people didn’t like that. But after that I was like, you know, I’m a writer, blah, blah, blah. I wrote the wonder years where I figured out how to find God in pop culture and there are all things reconsidered where I talked about just doubting God. You know, I was like, there’s a lot, a lot happened personally, uh, in the middle of that. But we’ll talk about that later. But I think it’s very much, it’s like I found God now the all things we’re gonna say is like, I want to understand God. You know, I think those are two different actions that we often just congeal into one. But I think it’s very important to find God where or let God find you, you know, but also now you’ve got to understand God, now you’ve got to take the time to like really take that apart and understand what you think about God and why you think it. Yeah. Cause there’s a, there’s a value to deconstructing sort of what you believe right. Speaker 1 48:48 To sort of like really delving into, but there’s also a real need to reconstruct something, you know, uh, in its place. And uh, yeah, and I think for, uh, specifically for someone like me, you can deconstruct and then you reconstruct you, you, and I’m glad you said that because I think a lot of people just talk about deconstruction. I think that’s a, I don’t want to say trendy because I said that feels like patronizing. It’s not, it’s a thing. Our generation, I think is doing right now for sure. Yeah. I don’t often hear people talking about reconstruction. Right. You know, um, and I think that’s an important aspect, but I also think sometimes you’re just not gonna know. You’re just not gonna know. And that’s okay. Like you’re not, if, if this was a God, you know, if you believe in a God that you could figure out and you could like find the manual on, I don’t know that that’s what you want.
Currey – No, I don’t think that’s the deal. You were so hesitant to like, accept any sort of mystery whatsoever. Right. Like, our faith is crumbling if like, we don’t have every single, like an answer to every single thing. Right?
Knox McCoy – Yeah. Yeah. But it’s like, that’s just that there’s not a YouTube tutorial. I’m sorry. You know, there’s literally YouTube tutorial for everything, but not this then that’s okay. Right. Totally. Now you’re totally right. I think that’s a, that’s a huge struggle for a lot of people. It’s just that it’s okay not to, not to know or to have all your ducks in a row right now.
Currey – Right. Yeah. Um, but I think, yeah, I think it’s more dangerous to believe something and, and fight over it just because you feel like if you even thought about it for a minute, that everything could fall apart, you know? Yeah, yeah. Defending something and not really know why you’re defending it. That’s the most dangerous alternative, I think. Yeah. When it’s like sort of an evangelical Speaker specialty, I think.
Knox McCoy – Oh, West, right? The playbook. That’s page number one. Yeah. And I’m totally guilty of that as well, you know? Oh, sure. Uh, yeah, I mean, it’s easy to do, so. Yeah, it’s good stuff, man. Uh, so do you want to like tell us how we can sort of contact you and all that stuff? Yeah, so obviously on the socials, I’m just, uh, at Knox McCoy, you can find me there. I do a newsletter, sexual healing, uh, every week. Um, if you’re interested in the book, um, you can go to dot com slash book. What we’re doing right now is, um, instead of like doing a launch team, what I’ve, uh, my publisher and I and Jamie and Erin, we all put our heads together and we’re like, what if we do on on launch team or like a best friends in the B word? Speaker 2 51:10 And what it is is like if you preorder the physical book, the physical copy of the book before it really state you get access to this private group. And I’m doing like special interview episodes, uh, special content episodes, um, chapters that didn’t make it, uh, new chapters. I’m writing all this audio content that you can listen to all if you just pre order the book. So go to Knoxville Corp com slash book and you can, that’ll direct you to the correct place to go to get all that. That’s awesome.
Currey – Uh, that’s cool. I love that. Um, can I just say sectional healing is like the best name for a newsletter ever. Thank you man. I appreciate it. I don’t like it. I got to that name. It’s a super long story, but I was writing a really bad piece of apocalyptic fiction. Okay. And, um, I pitched it to try, I turn to the book.
Currey – Can you just stop for one second? Did you just say you were writing a piece of apocalyptic fiction?
Knox McCoy – That’s correct. That was my game. My game plan was like, okay, this is going to get you a book deal. Then they’re going to turn it into a mini-series slash maybe movie and everything’s going to be really great. Come to the, it wasn’t even my agent at the time. I was trying, I was trying to impress an agent and she read it and like it was like, I dunno, 15 chapters and a sentence here. And like 12 minutes later she got it back and I know she did not read it, but she was like, yeah, this isn’t gonna work for me. But all that to say within it, the character, the main character owns a furniture store called sectional healing. And I was like, man, I love that name so much. And I, I think I even include it in a footnote of the wonder years of like, I love the same so much. And it was like, I don’t know how this is a newsletter name, but we’re just gonna make it work. So yeah. So thank you for those kind words about appreciate it for sure.
Currey – Do you ever, are you ever like in a public space where they’re playing like music and all of a sudden the song sexual healing comes on like in your, with your kids and you’re like, how was this part of the playlist?
Knox McCoy – Listen, I was somewhere and I don’t even like a gap or something or a food court and they were doing boys to men. I’ll make love to you. And I was like, look, I love the song. This takes me back. Right. I don’t know. This is a place for it. You know what I mean? I don’t want to be trying on like a sweater vest and being like, I’ll make love to you is playing. I dunno. That’s, that’s me. That’s, you know, maybe we’re just, we’re different than other people. I don’t know.
Currey – I think we probably pay attention to music and no one else does. Maybe. Or, I don’t know. It just seems so funny to me. Yeah. So anyway, uh, just real quick. So we meet in like a community center for our church, you know, and uh, they play music on the outside. So like you’ll be walking into church and like sexual healing is playing. Like as you’re, as you’re entering church, it’s like unbelievable. It’s actually kinda cool. You know what I mean? It’s like we don’t take ourselves too seriously here. You know, it’s the real line of demarcation. But now you’re in church, now you’re not in church. It’s right there. You know, if you’re offended by that, you’re probably going to be offended by what’s in here. So, um, good. Uh, okay. So you’re ready to jump into our final two questions? 100%. Let’s do it. Sweet. So my first question is, what is the strangest job that you have ever had?
Knox McCoy – Um, okay. So I was, I was an assistant baseball coach in college. Just saw this strange. Um, but I just did it for a year. I wasn’t paid, so that was a little strange. Um, and then I was a celebrity gossip beat writer. That was, that was like, uh, so my dad and I, we had a sporting good store in a screen printing shop. Uh, after we sold those, I was like, I’m going to become a writer and I had all these freelance gigs lined up and this celebrity gossipy writer was like the, uh, the big piece of the financial puzzle. It was like the one we were really leaning on. And uh, I would, I’d had to get up like four 30 and I would take like the 5:00 AM to 10:00 AM shift and eit — — her tried 10 stories about what’s going on, like with pride and Kim Kardashians, a lot of that. And uh, that was tough one. That’s the wildest job I’ve ever had. Speaker 1 55:01 That’s without question. That’s impressive. That is a, yeah, it’s like five, 20 7:00 AM and you’re trying to make like a pregnancy, right? Kardashians story relatable to the internet. That’s like, it’s not rock bottom right. But it is because you haven’t, like, if we’re there, like things aren’t great, you know what I mean?
Currey – Yeah. Right. There’s a lot of factors, uh, coming together there. Yeah, I get that. Okay. Sweet. So my final question is then, what is one piece of advice you would give to somebody looking to bring God’s kingdom more into their work?
Knox McCoy – You know, I would say, and I think we talked around it earlier, I would say like a lot of people feel like if you’re not in ministry, you’re doing like less than God’s work or you’re, you know, in the suburbs of God’s kingdom, not in like the city limits of God’s kingdom. But to me I all, I feel like everything’s ministry. Your work. Sure. How you go to the grocery store, everything, every interaction, how you conduct yourself, how you love on people, how you take interest in people that’s ministry. So be someone you might not be able to start like a Bible study in your work. That’s okay. Just like be really great to people, be invested, care about people and that I know that doesn’t have the, you know, neon flashing lights of like, I’m a Christian. Like you should respect what I’m doing here. But I think that, I think the little things Speaker 1 56:24 go such a long way in contributing to the bigger portion of like God’s kingdom and the, the bigger representation of like what God wants for people and his heart for people and, and seeing that through you. So I think treat that like, just treat it like everything you do as ministry. And I think that that’s a pretty a way to go about life. Yeah. I love that. I think that’s great man. I appreciate it, dude. Thanks for coming on. It was so fun to chat and love the books and the podcast, you know,
Knox McCoy – man, thanks so much for having me. I really appreciate it. Uh, it’s, it’s been a, a really fun conversation, so thank you for taking the time. Thanks man.
Currey (Conclusion) – Well, I hope you enjoyed hearing from Knox. I just want to remind you that everything that he talked about is in the show notes. You can find the book there. You can find all the links, uh, easily clickable there in the, uh, in the show notes to make it easy for you. I’m a nice guy. That’s what I do. Um, yeah. And hope you enjoyed reconsidering things. I uh, hope you check out the book. It really is a great read. It’s really, um, it’s really helpful, I think. And so, yeah, I just encourage you to do that. Make sure you’re listening to the podcast and Bible binge too. Those are great things to do, especially in a pandemic. Uh, you’ve got a little more time on your hands, maybe, uh, just great places to check out the podcast, especially as just a lot of levity in this situation. And so I highly encourage all those things. Uh, you can swipe to the bottom of your iTunes app right now and leave me a rating and review. That’s super helpful just to get the word out about the podcast. Let people know what we’re doing at theology of hustle. Uh, yeah. And I hope that you are staying safe out there, so until next time, get out there or stay in and hustle.
